whisperer
06-10-2011, 03:33 PM
Glenn Perry is a professional astrologer since 1975 and he is now one of the most famous professionals worldwide in the field. He graduated from Saybrook Institute and he holds a PhD in clinical psychology. He is an active psychotherapist in private practice since 1979.
He was awarded with Thuss Award at Saybrook Institute for outstanding writing and also he is recipient of International Astrologer’s Award for best article 1995-1998. He went on with writing and he is now proud to be the author of seven books in AstroPsychology.
He is the man that introduced AstroPsychology to the world. He is the founder and President of the Academy of AstroPsychology (AAP) and also publisher editor of the Journal of AstroPsychology (1988-1994). He is also the founder and director of The Association for Psychological Astrology (APA) dedicated to the establishment of general guidelines for the application of astrology to the fields of counseling and psychotherapy, and the enrichment of the field of astrology through the systemic integration of psychological concept and practices.
He was also a board member of the International Society for Astrological Research (ISAR) from 1996 to 2003 and 2009 until now. He served as Vice President of ISAR and the 2002 United Astrology Conference (UAC) Board. He is also a member of the California Association of Marriage and Family Therapists (CAMFT). He lectures and conducts workshops on the application of astrology to the fields of counselling and psychotherapy and he taught graduate classes at the California Institute of Integral Studies from 1997-2000.
It’s known that Glenn Perry is not a great fan of traditional astrology, and he prefers thinking astrology as a mean to explore one’s change and growth. He has a lot of supporters on his side, but also a lot of opponents, most of them being believers of traditional astrology. The most important thing is that Glenn has managed to earn the respect no matter whose side someone is on.
“The value of astrology. . .is not its power to predict what the gods have in store for humans, but its ability to reveal the god-like powers that reside in the depths of every human being.”
Glen Perry, Ph.D.
Please, allow me to introduce Glenn Perry, a rebel in disguise!
http://myhoroscope.gr/articles/gp2.jpg
MyHoroscope: Let’s take a trip down memory lane, when you first started delving into the mysteries of astrology. The majority of the populace is initially drawn to astrology because they hope that the heavens will provide an insight to their future or into their souls. What need of yours did you hope astrology would fill in, back then? As the founder and director of the Association for Psychological Astrology (APA), you claim to have no interest at all in predicting the future, in so called event-oriented astrology, however, could you elaborate a little bit on your first encounter with astrology?
Glenn Perry: My interest derived from a desire for self-understanding and a wish to better understand others. Astrology was the first and remains perhaps only system I have ever encountered that provided a clear and accurate assessment of my basic personality. When I first began looking at it, I was only studying Sun signs, and then Sun and Moon signs together. Even then, however, not only was the information extraordinarily accurate and useful for myself, it also helped me understand friends and family members.
I’m not necessarily against predictive astrology so long as it is done in a psychologically informed way. As I see it, we can predict the quality, duration, and meaning of a particular time period, but not concrete outcomes. Moreover, for predictions to be actually useful, they need to be framed in a context that supports an evolutionary process that is inherent in transits and progressions. Making predictions for any other reason – e.g., to advise the client how to exploit opportunities, maximize desired outcomes, or minimize feared outcomes, is not conducive to the client’s growth and development and merely fosters an addiction to the astrologer.
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MyHoroscope: In your capacity as a member of the California Association of Marriage and Family Therapists you must have come across a great number of cases. Moreover, in your book “Essays In Psychological Astrology: Theory & Practice” you point out, for example, how Pluto correlates with sexuality and intimacy issues. It appears that you use psychological astrology as a diagnostic tool, but what about therapeutic applications? Could you provide us with an illustration of how you utilize psychological astrology in healing one’s wounds, especially the ones that have an impact on one’s marital or family life?
Glenn Perry: When I’m working with clients in psychotherapy, it’s not necessary to talk about the chart with the client, although I do on occasion. Mostly, it simply enables me to be a better therapist for them. One should not underestimate the value of astrology as a diagnostic and prognostic tool. Much of what is actually therapeutic is predicated on a proper understanding of the client’s characterological makeup and the issues that flow from that makeup. Every therapist works from a particular theoretical orientation, which operates as a filter for making sense out of the client’s presenting problem. If your model is deficient, so also will be your treatment.
The therapeutic value of astrology is that it deepens and accelerates the diagnostic part of therapy, which is actually a continuous process. If one truly understands how the client is responsible for the problems they are encountering – or, at least understands the value and purpose of the problem, then one is better able to formulate interventions and interpretations that are empowering for that client. Having their birthchart helps me to do that.
http://i834.photobucket.com/albums/zz270/whisperer_m/3.gif
MyHoroscope: Many (traditional) astrologers claim to support or even practise psychological astrology, having simply read a couple of Jung’s books. They even use terms such as “archetypes of the collective unconscious”, or “the theory of synchronicity” either to further substantiate the advice they give to their clients or even to impress their audience. I was wondering though, how many of them are actually qualified to do so? Since you hold a doctorate in clinical psychology, do you think that it is appropriate for an astrologer to use psychological terms without holding an appropriate university degree in psychology? What are the implications for both the client and the counsellor in this case?
Glenn Perry: There’s no substitute for formal academic training with appropriate internships and supervision. However, that being said, I would never want to discourage an astrologer from studying psychology on his or her own and attempting to utilize that study in the service of being a better astrologer. Obviously, the more one studies, the better one is apt to apply psychological concepts and understanding to the practice of astrology. Formal degrees and licenses are no guarantor that one will be effective. Likewise, lack of formal degrees and licenses does not necessarily mean that one cannot work effectively with clients from a psychological perspective.
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MyHoroscope: You stress the significance of psychological astrology and its contribution to psychotherapy. Suppose someone comes to you with no particular psychological issues or problems; he has a great job, a wonderful family and leads a happy life, but feels there is still something missing. How would you, with the aid of psychological astrology, approach such a case?
Glenn Perry: I would simply listen to the client and endeavor to understand what exactly s/he feels is missing. Invariably, there is apt to be some unrealized potential or some repressed need that is evident in the chart but which the client has not yet been able to actualize. Helping the client become conscious of that part will ideally liberate them to express the missing piece and move toward wholeness.
http://i834.photobucket.com/albums/zz270/whisperer_m/3.gif
MyHoroscope: In a previous interview with David Bradley, which I must say I did enjoy very much, you talk about the qualitative approach to psychological astrology and the difficulties you encountered in quantifying the variables and performing statistics. Still, since a natal or transit aspect might affect a person’s psychological state in various different ways, don’t you think that you actually could perform statistics? I mean, there is a consistency in the meaning of an aspect or transit and you have been consulting – I might venture to say – thousands of personalities. So, why deprive the statistical validation from this kind of approach and analysis?
Glenn Perry: I’m not denying that there may be some way to perform statistical tests that validate astrology. I’m merely saying it’s very, very difficult because of the nature of birthcharts and people. With regard to an outcome that can be measured and predicted, there are so many contributing factors other than the planetary configuration in question – the rest of the chart as a whole, the person’s level of psychological integration, maturity, conscious awareness, and the like – that it’s very hard to devise a statistical test to test for a specific preconceived outcome. Even people with the exact same chart do not necessarily express or experience it the same way, as twin studies abundantly reveal.
It is axiomatic that an archetype can take many and varied forms and still remain true to its essential meaning. Likewise in astrology, an astrological configuration can express itself in innumerable ways that are equally consistent with the meaning of the relevant variables. A planetary archetype is multidimensional in that it manifests through phenomena that exist at different dimensional levels, e.g., as a need, feeling, attitude, belief, behavior, thing, role, person, place, quality, or event—all of which can be implicit in a single experience. Saturn, for example, can be an impulse for order, a feeling of heaviness, an attitude of realism, a belief in traditional values, behavior that is cautious, a calendar for making plans, the role of timekeeper, a person of authority, the top-floor office of the CEO, a grave and somber quality, and a pressure-filled responsibility that requires meeting a deadline.
Not only do planetary archetypes (and their sign and house counterparts) display a bewildering multidimensionality, they are also multivalent in that there are varying expressions of the same archetype within a given dimension. Again, Saturn can be an impulse for order, but also a need for control, authority, perfection, success, or mastery. As an emotion, it can be a feeling of heaviness but also of despair, inferiority, failure, stress, seriousness, focus, or unyielding determination. As a thing it might be a calendar, but also a watch, bones, handcuffs, a scaffold, gavel, speed limit, and so on.
In addition to the multidimensionality and multivalence of astrological archetypes, they are also polyvalent, i.e., capable of combining in virtually limitless ways by virtue of their sign, house, and aspects. The resultant archetypal compounds yield emergent properties that are not inherent at the level of the variables that comprise them. If Saturn is in Pisces, for example, the impulse to order could manifest through phenomena that involve flow and liquidity (Pisces). If Saturn is also conjunct Uranus, the principle of order is joined with that of change, thus producing ordered change, disciplined progress, or a revolutionary new order, all of which will manifest in a Piscean way and through Piscean phenomena. A person, for example, might be the head of product development in an innovative high tech firm dedicated to the practical applications of liquid crystals. If this conjunction falls in the 5th house, his firm might be employed in the service of the entertainment industry, such as through special effects that allow for three dimensional viewing experiences in computer games and movies.
Of course, this same configuration—Saturn conjunct Uranus in Pisces in the 5th—could manifest in hundreds of other ways, too. Possibilities are only limited by one’s imagination and capacity for constructing plausible scenarios. The inherent multidimensional, multivalent, and polyvalent quality of astrological archetypes makes astrology archetypally predictive, but not concretely predictive. Planetary configurations correspond to human experiences but are radically indeterminate in their ultimate manifestations. Any attempt to predict a fixed outcome from a configuration is unnecessarily restrictive and increases the probability that the prediction will be wrong and thus the ‘test’ will fail. Since reliability in prediction is inversely proportional to concreteness, the goal of archetypal astrology is not to predict concrete outcomes, but to discern the meaning of present (and future) events in terms of their purpose for the individual. The operative question shifts from ‘what is going to happen to me?’ to ‘how best can I understand the challenges and opportunities of this particular time of my life?’ Needless to say, all of this makes astrology very difficult to study through statistical methods.
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MyHoroscope: What do you think is the Achilles‘ heel of Psychological Astrology? Have you ever come across any unexpected outcomes or behaviors that didn’t quite fit with your expectations of a natal or a transit chart?
Glenn Perry: With regard to the first question, the Achilles heel is poor interpretation and application, but that’s the same with any type of astrology. With regard to the second question, I have never encountered a client who expressed his or her chart in a manner that did not fit with the potentials of the chart. That would be like defying gravity. If astrology works, it works for everyone. It is part of the Universe in which we live. If a client seems not to fit his chart, that’s due to the deficiency of the astrologer, not astrology.
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MyHoroscope: In your article “A Critical Review Of Reincarnational Astrology” you clearly state that you believe in reincarnation and karma, don’t you? Nevertheless, I could not help noticing the quotation from “our” Aristoteles: “It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.” ....
Glenn Perry: Yes, but the purpose of that quote is not to express my skepticism with regard to reincarnation and karma. It was to express my skepticism that one can discern past life information from astrological charts. There is an abundance of evidence supportive of reincarnation. The best evidence comes from actual past life memories of children that can be confirmed by speaking with relatives of the prior personality. Hundreds if not thousands of such cases have been recorded and are being scientifically studied by researchers. However, to my knowledge, there is very little if any research to confirm past life interpretations on the basis of current life birthcharts. For such statements to be credible, one would need to obtain factual details of a prior life personality and life experience and then see if they correlate in any way to the current birthchart.
MyHoroscope: ... In another article of yours, "Couple Compatibility In Synastry - A Question of Attitude", you argue against an unnamed vedic astrologer’s beliefs. So, it makes me wonder…how can you or anyone else in that matter, believe in reincarnation and karma when you actually have serious doubts about how they can be depicted in one’s chart?
Glenn Perry: I find this a very odd question. Why does belief in the former contradict disbelief in the latter? As stated above, there is an abundance of data to confirm that we have more than one life. However, I think it is pretentious in the extreme (if not actually fraudulent) to claim that one knows how a past-life is depicted in the birthchart. While it’s quite probable that planetary positions have some connection to past life patterns that have accrued for a particular soul, why should one presume to know the reincarnational logic that decrees a person should be born at a particular time and place? This is a presumption of God-like omniscience.
With any given configuration, there are a variety of plausible yet very different past life explanations. The problem is that one cannot truly know, for example, why a person has Sun square Moon or any other aspect. We can presume it is lawful, earned, and purposive, but anything beyond that is guesswork. In the absence of evidence from actual prior lives to substantiate a past-life interpretation, one should at least have the good character to admit that such interpretations are speculative. To do otherwise is simply dishonest and exploits the credulity of the client.
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MyHoroscope: Have you ever tackled a twins case from a psychological point of view? The reason I am raising this issue is the fact that even identical twins have been reported to evolve into wholly different personalities despite their natal chart similarities. Did you have to use a different approach to discern their different psychological state and how this would correlate to their very similar natal and transits charts? How can psychological astrology bypass these kinds of difficulties or issues?
Glenn Perry: First, I don’t presume that the person is the chart. I believe a soul inhabits a chart in much the same way that a student assumes a particular course of studies. While different students may have similar reasons for attending the same school and tackling the identical curriculum, one cannot expect that they will necessarily perform with equal ability. As for actual birth twins, there is a powerful differentiating force in human nature that drives twins to live as separate beings. Accordingly, one twin may identify with certain parts of the chart and project others; and the other twin may do just the opposite. They have the same chart, but choose to express it differently in accord with a need to not merge into an amorphous, undifferentiated sameness.
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MyHoroscope: In your article on “Astro Fundamentalism” I quote “Many otherwise intelligent people are prejudiced against astrology precisely because it seems to imply and support a fatalistic attitude.” Who do you believe are, in essence, the sceptics of astrology: astronomers, therapists, or the church? Is it Astro Fundamentalism or Astro Myopia that gives astrology a bad name?
Glenn Perry: Anyone who is not an astrologer can be a skeptic for the simple reason that they have not had repeated experiences of astrology’s validity. Different people and professions will have their own reasons for being prejudiced against astrology, but I believe that a common thread that runs through all objections is an instinctive rejection of fatalism – the belief that character and destiny are fixed and determined by forces beyond one’s control. To the extent that astrologers endorse a fatalistic attitude – and I realize there are strong and weak versions of fatalism – they are working against an evolutionary imperative that is built into the very fabric of the Universe.
AstroMyopia – the tendency to burden singular parts of the chart with too much meaning – is a separate problem and simply bad astrology. While bad practice can certainly undermine astrology’s credibility, it is not as pernicious a problem as fatalistic pronouncements of concrete outcomes, e.g., “you will never marry.” AstroMyopia is merely unhelpful; fatalism is actually harmful to clients because of its disempowering, frightening, and dependency-engendering effects.
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MyHoroscope: Do you believe that the effort of the “three Roberts” --as you call them in your article on “Astro Fundamentalism”-- to explore ancient astrology texts entails the danger to return to the old belief of fatalistic astrology? Does this particular endeavor threaten the profession of the counselor or therapist, in your opinion?
Glenn Perry: For various reasons, we entered a period in the 1990’s that necessitated the recovery of astrology’s past. Perhaps it was a corrective to the loose and undisciplined expression of astrology that characterized the post-Rhudyarian period from the 1960s through the 80’s. There was a clear lack of structure and academic rigor during that time. If nothing else, traditional astrology was highly structured and systematic. While many astrologers have been seduced by the false promise that traditional astrology provides – i.e., assurance that one can know with certainty the outcome of a life – I don’t think we’re in any danger of regressing back to that type of astrology on a permanent basis. Like black magic, however, it will always have a certain appeal to people that feel powerless in the face of life’s uncertainties. It is, however, a dangerous tonic that can inflate an astrologer’s estimations of his or her ability to actually help people.
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MyHoroscope: And finally, a question on “Astromyopia”! Many people “suffer” from but few are aware of it. What kind of glasses would you prescribe to improve our “astrological vision”?
Glenn Perry: Holistic glasses that enable one to be cognizant of the fact that the whole is always greater than the sum of its parts, and that all meanings emerge from the interaction of multiple variables. Recognition and acceptance of indeterminacy is another key factor. Astrologers think that they should cater to client’s anxieties to want to know the future, which is a fool’s errand. Likewise, we think we are supposed to know everything about a client’s character merely on the basis of the chart, which is impossible. A good reading requires that astrologer and client collaborate in a mutual discovery of meaning. This can only occur when the astrologer has an open mind and is willing to engage the client in dialogue. Only then can the chart truly come alive and deliver its full promise.
He was awarded with Thuss Award at Saybrook Institute for outstanding writing and also he is recipient of International Astrologer’s Award for best article 1995-1998. He went on with writing and he is now proud to be the author of seven books in AstroPsychology.
He is the man that introduced AstroPsychology to the world. He is the founder and President of the Academy of AstroPsychology (AAP) and also publisher editor of the Journal of AstroPsychology (1988-1994). He is also the founder and director of The Association for Psychological Astrology (APA) dedicated to the establishment of general guidelines for the application of astrology to the fields of counseling and psychotherapy, and the enrichment of the field of astrology through the systemic integration of psychological concept and practices.
He was also a board member of the International Society for Astrological Research (ISAR) from 1996 to 2003 and 2009 until now. He served as Vice President of ISAR and the 2002 United Astrology Conference (UAC) Board. He is also a member of the California Association of Marriage and Family Therapists (CAMFT). He lectures and conducts workshops on the application of astrology to the fields of counselling and psychotherapy and he taught graduate classes at the California Institute of Integral Studies from 1997-2000.
It’s known that Glenn Perry is not a great fan of traditional astrology, and he prefers thinking astrology as a mean to explore one’s change and growth. He has a lot of supporters on his side, but also a lot of opponents, most of them being believers of traditional astrology. The most important thing is that Glenn has managed to earn the respect no matter whose side someone is on.
“The value of astrology. . .is not its power to predict what the gods have in store for humans, but its ability to reveal the god-like powers that reside in the depths of every human being.”
Glen Perry, Ph.D.
Please, allow me to introduce Glenn Perry, a rebel in disguise!
http://myhoroscope.gr/articles/gp2.jpg
MyHoroscope: Let’s take a trip down memory lane, when you first started delving into the mysteries of astrology. The majority of the populace is initially drawn to astrology because they hope that the heavens will provide an insight to their future or into their souls. What need of yours did you hope astrology would fill in, back then? As the founder and director of the Association for Psychological Astrology (APA), you claim to have no interest at all in predicting the future, in so called event-oriented astrology, however, could you elaborate a little bit on your first encounter with astrology?
Glenn Perry: My interest derived from a desire for self-understanding and a wish to better understand others. Astrology was the first and remains perhaps only system I have ever encountered that provided a clear and accurate assessment of my basic personality. When I first began looking at it, I was only studying Sun signs, and then Sun and Moon signs together. Even then, however, not only was the information extraordinarily accurate and useful for myself, it also helped me understand friends and family members.
I’m not necessarily against predictive astrology so long as it is done in a psychologically informed way. As I see it, we can predict the quality, duration, and meaning of a particular time period, but not concrete outcomes. Moreover, for predictions to be actually useful, they need to be framed in a context that supports an evolutionary process that is inherent in transits and progressions. Making predictions for any other reason – e.g., to advise the client how to exploit opportunities, maximize desired outcomes, or minimize feared outcomes, is not conducive to the client’s growth and development and merely fosters an addiction to the astrologer.
http://i834.photobucket.com/albums/zz270/whisperer_m/3.gif
MyHoroscope: In your capacity as a member of the California Association of Marriage and Family Therapists you must have come across a great number of cases. Moreover, in your book “Essays In Psychological Astrology: Theory & Practice” you point out, for example, how Pluto correlates with sexuality and intimacy issues. It appears that you use psychological astrology as a diagnostic tool, but what about therapeutic applications? Could you provide us with an illustration of how you utilize psychological astrology in healing one’s wounds, especially the ones that have an impact on one’s marital or family life?
Glenn Perry: When I’m working with clients in psychotherapy, it’s not necessary to talk about the chart with the client, although I do on occasion. Mostly, it simply enables me to be a better therapist for them. One should not underestimate the value of astrology as a diagnostic and prognostic tool. Much of what is actually therapeutic is predicated on a proper understanding of the client’s characterological makeup and the issues that flow from that makeup. Every therapist works from a particular theoretical orientation, which operates as a filter for making sense out of the client’s presenting problem. If your model is deficient, so also will be your treatment.
The therapeutic value of astrology is that it deepens and accelerates the diagnostic part of therapy, which is actually a continuous process. If one truly understands how the client is responsible for the problems they are encountering – or, at least understands the value and purpose of the problem, then one is better able to formulate interventions and interpretations that are empowering for that client. Having their birthchart helps me to do that.
http://i834.photobucket.com/albums/zz270/whisperer_m/3.gif
MyHoroscope: Many (traditional) astrologers claim to support or even practise psychological astrology, having simply read a couple of Jung’s books. They even use terms such as “archetypes of the collective unconscious”, or “the theory of synchronicity” either to further substantiate the advice they give to their clients or even to impress their audience. I was wondering though, how many of them are actually qualified to do so? Since you hold a doctorate in clinical psychology, do you think that it is appropriate for an astrologer to use psychological terms without holding an appropriate university degree in psychology? What are the implications for both the client and the counsellor in this case?
Glenn Perry: There’s no substitute for formal academic training with appropriate internships and supervision. However, that being said, I would never want to discourage an astrologer from studying psychology on his or her own and attempting to utilize that study in the service of being a better astrologer. Obviously, the more one studies, the better one is apt to apply psychological concepts and understanding to the practice of astrology. Formal degrees and licenses are no guarantor that one will be effective. Likewise, lack of formal degrees and licenses does not necessarily mean that one cannot work effectively with clients from a psychological perspective.
http://i834.photobucket.com/albums/zz270/whisperer_m/3.gif
MyHoroscope: You stress the significance of psychological astrology and its contribution to psychotherapy. Suppose someone comes to you with no particular psychological issues or problems; he has a great job, a wonderful family and leads a happy life, but feels there is still something missing. How would you, with the aid of psychological astrology, approach such a case?
Glenn Perry: I would simply listen to the client and endeavor to understand what exactly s/he feels is missing. Invariably, there is apt to be some unrealized potential or some repressed need that is evident in the chart but which the client has not yet been able to actualize. Helping the client become conscious of that part will ideally liberate them to express the missing piece and move toward wholeness.
http://i834.photobucket.com/albums/zz270/whisperer_m/3.gif
MyHoroscope: In a previous interview with David Bradley, which I must say I did enjoy very much, you talk about the qualitative approach to psychological astrology and the difficulties you encountered in quantifying the variables and performing statistics. Still, since a natal or transit aspect might affect a person’s psychological state in various different ways, don’t you think that you actually could perform statistics? I mean, there is a consistency in the meaning of an aspect or transit and you have been consulting – I might venture to say – thousands of personalities. So, why deprive the statistical validation from this kind of approach and analysis?
Glenn Perry: I’m not denying that there may be some way to perform statistical tests that validate astrology. I’m merely saying it’s very, very difficult because of the nature of birthcharts and people. With regard to an outcome that can be measured and predicted, there are so many contributing factors other than the planetary configuration in question – the rest of the chart as a whole, the person’s level of psychological integration, maturity, conscious awareness, and the like – that it’s very hard to devise a statistical test to test for a specific preconceived outcome. Even people with the exact same chart do not necessarily express or experience it the same way, as twin studies abundantly reveal.
It is axiomatic that an archetype can take many and varied forms and still remain true to its essential meaning. Likewise in astrology, an astrological configuration can express itself in innumerable ways that are equally consistent with the meaning of the relevant variables. A planetary archetype is multidimensional in that it manifests through phenomena that exist at different dimensional levels, e.g., as a need, feeling, attitude, belief, behavior, thing, role, person, place, quality, or event—all of which can be implicit in a single experience. Saturn, for example, can be an impulse for order, a feeling of heaviness, an attitude of realism, a belief in traditional values, behavior that is cautious, a calendar for making plans, the role of timekeeper, a person of authority, the top-floor office of the CEO, a grave and somber quality, and a pressure-filled responsibility that requires meeting a deadline.
Not only do planetary archetypes (and their sign and house counterparts) display a bewildering multidimensionality, they are also multivalent in that there are varying expressions of the same archetype within a given dimension. Again, Saturn can be an impulse for order, but also a need for control, authority, perfection, success, or mastery. As an emotion, it can be a feeling of heaviness but also of despair, inferiority, failure, stress, seriousness, focus, or unyielding determination. As a thing it might be a calendar, but also a watch, bones, handcuffs, a scaffold, gavel, speed limit, and so on.
In addition to the multidimensionality and multivalence of astrological archetypes, they are also polyvalent, i.e., capable of combining in virtually limitless ways by virtue of their sign, house, and aspects. The resultant archetypal compounds yield emergent properties that are not inherent at the level of the variables that comprise them. If Saturn is in Pisces, for example, the impulse to order could manifest through phenomena that involve flow and liquidity (Pisces). If Saturn is also conjunct Uranus, the principle of order is joined with that of change, thus producing ordered change, disciplined progress, or a revolutionary new order, all of which will manifest in a Piscean way and through Piscean phenomena. A person, for example, might be the head of product development in an innovative high tech firm dedicated to the practical applications of liquid crystals. If this conjunction falls in the 5th house, his firm might be employed in the service of the entertainment industry, such as through special effects that allow for three dimensional viewing experiences in computer games and movies.
Of course, this same configuration—Saturn conjunct Uranus in Pisces in the 5th—could manifest in hundreds of other ways, too. Possibilities are only limited by one’s imagination and capacity for constructing plausible scenarios. The inherent multidimensional, multivalent, and polyvalent quality of astrological archetypes makes astrology archetypally predictive, but not concretely predictive. Planetary configurations correspond to human experiences but are radically indeterminate in their ultimate manifestations. Any attempt to predict a fixed outcome from a configuration is unnecessarily restrictive and increases the probability that the prediction will be wrong and thus the ‘test’ will fail. Since reliability in prediction is inversely proportional to concreteness, the goal of archetypal astrology is not to predict concrete outcomes, but to discern the meaning of present (and future) events in terms of their purpose for the individual. The operative question shifts from ‘what is going to happen to me?’ to ‘how best can I understand the challenges and opportunities of this particular time of my life?’ Needless to say, all of this makes astrology very difficult to study through statistical methods.
http://i834.photobucket.com/albums/zz270/whisperer_m/3.gif
MyHoroscope: What do you think is the Achilles‘ heel of Psychological Astrology? Have you ever come across any unexpected outcomes or behaviors that didn’t quite fit with your expectations of a natal or a transit chart?
Glenn Perry: With regard to the first question, the Achilles heel is poor interpretation and application, but that’s the same with any type of astrology. With regard to the second question, I have never encountered a client who expressed his or her chart in a manner that did not fit with the potentials of the chart. That would be like defying gravity. If astrology works, it works for everyone. It is part of the Universe in which we live. If a client seems not to fit his chart, that’s due to the deficiency of the astrologer, not astrology.
http://i834.photobucket.com/albums/zz270/whisperer_m/3.gif
MyHoroscope: In your article “A Critical Review Of Reincarnational Astrology” you clearly state that you believe in reincarnation and karma, don’t you? Nevertheless, I could not help noticing the quotation from “our” Aristoteles: “It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.” ....
Glenn Perry: Yes, but the purpose of that quote is not to express my skepticism with regard to reincarnation and karma. It was to express my skepticism that one can discern past life information from astrological charts. There is an abundance of evidence supportive of reincarnation. The best evidence comes from actual past life memories of children that can be confirmed by speaking with relatives of the prior personality. Hundreds if not thousands of such cases have been recorded and are being scientifically studied by researchers. However, to my knowledge, there is very little if any research to confirm past life interpretations on the basis of current life birthcharts. For such statements to be credible, one would need to obtain factual details of a prior life personality and life experience and then see if they correlate in any way to the current birthchart.
MyHoroscope: ... In another article of yours, "Couple Compatibility In Synastry - A Question of Attitude", you argue against an unnamed vedic astrologer’s beliefs. So, it makes me wonder…how can you or anyone else in that matter, believe in reincarnation and karma when you actually have serious doubts about how they can be depicted in one’s chart?
Glenn Perry: I find this a very odd question. Why does belief in the former contradict disbelief in the latter? As stated above, there is an abundance of data to confirm that we have more than one life. However, I think it is pretentious in the extreme (if not actually fraudulent) to claim that one knows how a past-life is depicted in the birthchart. While it’s quite probable that planetary positions have some connection to past life patterns that have accrued for a particular soul, why should one presume to know the reincarnational logic that decrees a person should be born at a particular time and place? This is a presumption of God-like omniscience.
With any given configuration, there are a variety of plausible yet very different past life explanations. The problem is that one cannot truly know, for example, why a person has Sun square Moon or any other aspect. We can presume it is lawful, earned, and purposive, but anything beyond that is guesswork. In the absence of evidence from actual prior lives to substantiate a past-life interpretation, one should at least have the good character to admit that such interpretations are speculative. To do otherwise is simply dishonest and exploits the credulity of the client.
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MyHoroscope: Have you ever tackled a twins case from a psychological point of view? The reason I am raising this issue is the fact that even identical twins have been reported to evolve into wholly different personalities despite their natal chart similarities. Did you have to use a different approach to discern their different psychological state and how this would correlate to their very similar natal and transits charts? How can psychological astrology bypass these kinds of difficulties or issues?
Glenn Perry: First, I don’t presume that the person is the chart. I believe a soul inhabits a chart in much the same way that a student assumes a particular course of studies. While different students may have similar reasons for attending the same school and tackling the identical curriculum, one cannot expect that they will necessarily perform with equal ability. As for actual birth twins, there is a powerful differentiating force in human nature that drives twins to live as separate beings. Accordingly, one twin may identify with certain parts of the chart and project others; and the other twin may do just the opposite. They have the same chart, but choose to express it differently in accord with a need to not merge into an amorphous, undifferentiated sameness.
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MyHoroscope: In your article on “Astro Fundamentalism” I quote “Many otherwise intelligent people are prejudiced against astrology precisely because it seems to imply and support a fatalistic attitude.” Who do you believe are, in essence, the sceptics of astrology: astronomers, therapists, or the church? Is it Astro Fundamentalism or Astro Myopia that gives astrology a bad name?
Glenn Perry: Anyone who is not an astrologer can be a skeptic for the simple reason that they have not had repeated experiences of astrology’s validity. Different people and professions will have their own reasons for being prejudiced against astrology, but I believe that a common thread that runs through all objections is an instinctive rejection of fatalism – the belief that character and destiny are fixed and determined by forces beyond one’s control. To the extent that astrologers endorse a fatalistic attitude – and I realize there are strong and weak versions of fatalism – they are working against an evolutionary imperative that is built into the very fabric of the Universe.
AstroMyopia – the tendency to burden singular parts of the chart with too much meaning – is a separate problem and simply bad astrology. While bad practice can certainly undermine astrology’s credibility, it is not as pernicious a problem as fatalistic pronouncements of concrete outcomes, e.g., “you will never marry.” AstroMyopia is merely unhelpful; fatalism is actually harmful to clients because of its disempowering, frightening, and dependency-engendering effects.
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MyHoroscope: Do you believe that the effort of the “three Roberts” --as you call them in your article on “Astro Fundamentalism”-- to explore ancient astrology texts entails the danger to return to the old belief of fatalistic astrology? Does this particular endeavor threaten the profession of the counselor or therapist, in your opinion?
Glenn Perry: For various reasons, we entered a period in the 1990’s that necessitated the recovery of astrology’s past. Perhaps it was a corrective to the loose and undisciplined expression of astrology that characterized the post-Rhudyarian period from the 1960s through the 80’s. There was a clear lack of structure and academic rigor during that time. If nothing else, traditional astrology was highly structured and systematic. While many astrologers have been seduced by the false promise that traditional astrology provides – i.e., assurance that one can know with certainty the outcome of a life – I don’t think we’re in any danger of regressing back to that type of astrology on a permanent basis. Like black magic, however, it will always have a certain appeal to people that feel powerless in the face of life’s uncertainties. It is, however, a dangerous tonic that can inflate an astrologer’s estimations of his or her ability to actually help people.
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MyHoroscope: And finally, a question on “Astromyopia”! Many people “suffer” from but few are aware of it. What kind of glasses would you prescribe to improve our “astrological vision”?
Glenn Perry: Holistic glasses that enable one to be cognizant of the fact that the whole is always greater than the sum of its parts, and that all meanings emerge from the interaction of multiple variables. Recognition and acceptance of indeterminacy is another key factor. Astrologers think that they should cater to client’s anxieties to want to know the future, which is a fool’s errand. Likewise, we think we are supposed to know everything about a client’s character merely on the basis of the chart, which is impossible. A good reading requires that astrologer and client collaborate in a mutual discovery of meaning. This can only occur when the astrologer has an open mind and is willing to engage the client in dialogue. Only then can the chart truly come alive and deliver its full promise.